tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post116039967451369014..comments2023-09-30T06:07:27.416-04:00Comments on Questioning Semantics: The New "Nigger" ProtocolsWesthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1161003768589701382006-10-16T09:02:00.000-04:002006-10-16T09:02:00.000-04:00I love this discussion. As long as people can be c...I love this discussion. As long as people can be civil everyone gets heard.princessdominiquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07487209892843939470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160786072208361442006-10-13T20:34:00.000-04:002006-10-13T20:34:00.000-04:00West, I tend to use it less as I get older. I usua...West, I tend to use it less as I get older. I usually use it loosely to mention men usually really ignorant men.<BR/><BR/>I heard my daughter, who is 16 say it to a female friend. I had to check her. So now I am working on not using it myself. I barely use and actually want to stop.Shaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09049949734768494039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160708369427298912006-10-12T22:59:00.000-04:002006-10-12T22:59:00.000-04:00That's sounds a lot like how I feel about it all. ...<B>That's sounds a lot like how I feel about it all. But I don't think the other side's argument is completely without merit.</B><BR/><BR/>Glad to hear that we understand each other. I thought our opinions on this were pretty close. As far as the other side not being completely without merit...tell you what, I'll do some more ponderin' on that stuff as my great-grandma used to say.Art Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512422556677772379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160683116744951852006-10-12T15:58:00.000-04:002006-10-12T15:58:00.000-04:00re: "That is another definition of the word "ackno...re: <B>"That is another definition of the word "acknowledge". I can recognize or acknowledge someone else's viewpoint without agreeing to its validity."</B><BR/><BR/>Hopefully, you won't mind me exploring this point but...<BR/><BR/>What is the value of such statements of acknowledgement (i.e. "I did see that you were acknowledging his point. I guess I do, too. ")? We know you saw what was said, so that's not new information and you seem to be in-doubt (i.e. "I guess...") as to whether you acknowledge it or not. That strongly suggests something (a little or a lot) more than just saying you see and comprehend the words on the screen.<BR/><BR/>All that left (in my mind, anyway) was acknowledgement of the partial or full validity of the statements. Otherwise, it seems like a statement without a message.<BR/><BR/>That's why it seemed contradictory, to me, when you later denied any validity in the opposing argument.<BR/><BR/>(How that for semantics? :p )<BR/><BR/>re: <B>"I re-read your post to see if I missed something in your original statement and I did indeed. If you are saying you recognize the validity of his arguement that friends can call each other whatever they want to and it doesn't mean anything because it doesn't mean anything to the recipient, then you are willing to go farther that I."</B><BR/><BR/>*Some* validity.<BR/><BR/>Obviously, with most things, there are limits. I've got a friend (now an ex-friend, I guess) who was quick as hell to say "nigga" this or that. When she was referring to other people, I didn't say shit about it. When she was referring to me, I called her on it... occasionally, at first - then every single time she did it. (I tried to give her a second to adjust.)<BR/><BR/>Now, she'd call you "nigga" and she was okay with being called the same, apparently, but call her a "bitch" and it's on.<BR/>Clearly, it's about degrees or drawing our don't-cross-me lines in different places.<BR/><BR/>I think you hear me, more or less, but I don't see the acknowledgement of degrees. That's essential to my point and it's clearly one of the elements that Rider somehow missed, throughout my original post.<BR/><BR/>There ARE some generally objectionable things that friends may understandable call each other, from time to time. Some are incredibly benign - others, not so much.<BR/><BR/>If intent is so the difference between friends getting pissed for being called X today and being called X, tomorrow, then it's at least predictable that some people might allow intent to trump "nigga." There's *some* validity to it, which anyone who's ever sarcastically referred to a friend or loved-one as a "genius" (or something similar) ought to understand.<BR/><BR/>re: <B>"I have heard the arguements before that this is the way to take the power away from the word "nigger". I understand the arguement but, don't buy it. To me, it seems as if some white people are dying to call us "niggers" and this is the perfect way to do it because apparently, we see and call ourselves that anyway. Too many of us have fought too long and hard to be recognized as "real" human beings to let this happen because someone wants to be "down with the brothas" and the "brothas" themselves are too ignorant to know better."</B><BR/><BR/>That's sounds a lot like how I feel about it all. But I don't think the other side's argument is completely without merit.Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160681317237682072006-10-12T15:28:00.000-04:002006-10-12T15:28:00.000-04:00That seems somewhat contradictory. In what way are...<B>That seems somewhat contradictory. In what way are you acknowledging his point besides... recognizing that it exists?</B><BR/><BR/>That is another definition of the word "acknowledge". I can recognize or acknowledge someone else's viewpoint without agreeing to its validity. The first thing I learned in debating class is how to take a postion you would not normally agree with and argue it with my opponent. It sticks with me to this day and sometimes this makes my remarks sound contradictory.<BR/><BR/>I re-read your post to see if I missed something in your original statement and I did indeed. If you are saying you recognize the validity of his arguement that friends can call each other whatever they want to and it doesn't mean anything because it doesn't mean anything to the recipient, then you are willing to go farther that I.<BR/><BR/>I have heard the arguements before that this is the way to take the power away from the word "nigger". I understand the arguement but, don't buy it. To me, it seems as if some white people are dying to call us "niggers" and this is the perfect way to do it because apparently, we see and call ourselves that anyway. Too many of us have fought too long and hard to be recognized as "real" human beings to let this happen because someone wants to be "down with the brothas" and the "brothas" themselves are too ignorant to know better.<BR/><BR/>Let me wrap this up with a question of semantics, (excuse the pun) "What do you call a black doctor?"<BR/><BR/>Good talking to you again, my brother. This is definitely becoming the site I come to when I want to think...Art Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512422556677772379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160616014404197042006-10-11T21:20:00.000-04:002006-10-11T21:20:00.000-04:00re: "I did see that you were acknowledging his poi...re: <B>"I did see that you were acknowledging his point. I guess I do, too. I'll be damned if I agree that it is a valid one.</B><BR/><BR/>I don't understand.<BR/><BR/>You "acknowledge" his point, as I do, but you don't agree that it's (partially) "valid?"<BR/><BR/>That seems somewhat contradictory. In what way are you acknowledging his point besides... recognizing that it exists?<BR/><BR/>re: <B>"If all of your friends were to jump off a bridge would you follow them?<BR/><BR/>The childish reply is, "I don't know, how high is the bridge?""</B><BR/><BR/>I don't get the significance of the question.<BR/><BR/>The point of bringing up the fact that some friends call each other things that would be considered insults by others is that it parallels the issue at-hand (i.e. friends referring to each other as "niggers" without meaning or causing any harm to one another).<BR/><BR/>Even if "motherfucker" is too strong, "doofus" qualifies, as do a number of sarcastically benign comments.<BR/><BR/>The point isn't that "they do it, so everyone should." The point is that the two situations aren't completely dissimilar, so if you get one then you might not be too far from getting the other.<BR/><BR/>re: <B>"What this shows IMHO, is that you are willing to compromise your principles and common sense to "get along".<BR/><BR/>Now THAT is f'ed up."</B><BR/><BR/>That's a surprising interpretation. Apparently, my point wasn't very clear.<BR/><BR/>I hope the above helps.Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160613667686922132006-10-11T20:41:00.000-04:002006-10-11T20:41:00.000-04:00Only people with limited vocabularies with limited...<B>Only people with limited vocabularies with limited understanding of the world go around calling each other nigga/nigger or bitches and hoes. I'll be more blunt. In my opinion only low class or ignorant people talk that way. Interesting post and comments. </B><BR/><BR/>Amen, to that sister...Art Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512422556677772379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160613622702484812006-10-11T20:40:00.000-04:002006-10-11T20:40:00.000-04:00Friends will call each other "bitch" and "motherfu...<B>Friends will call each other "bitch" and "motherfucker" and all sorts of rude things, because they're cool with each other and don't mean anything by it, really.</B><BR/><BR/>See, this is why I have no "street cred" anymore. I don't roll with people that roll that way.<BR/><BR/><B>This is why I acknowledge that there's some validity to the other side's position (despite the fact that some snide comments fail to recognize that tip o' the hat on my part).</B><BR/><BR/>I did see that you were acknowledging his point. I guess I do, too. I'll be damned if I agree that it is a valid one. If all of your friends were to jump off a bridge would you follow them?<BR/><BR/>The childish reply is, "I don't know, how high is the bridge?"<BR/><BR/>What this shows IMHO, is that you are willing to compromise your principles and common sense to "get along".<BR/><BR/>Now THAT is f'ed up.Art Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512422556677772379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160581410757581742006-10-11T11:43:00.000-04:002006-10-11T11:43:00.000-04:00Only people with limited vocabularies with limited...Only people with limited vocabularies with limited understanding of the world go around calling each other nigga/nigger or bitches and hoes. I'll be more blunt. In my opinion only low class or ignorant people talk that way. Interesting post and comments.Miz JJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08416250760689332164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160580550354426452006-10-11T11:29:00.000-04:002006-10-11T11:29:00.000-04:00re: "Yo, Cage, let it go, I think the Rider has ri...re: <B>"Yo, Cage, let it go, I think the Rider has ridden on. For the record, I understand what he is saying, but I think that it is a false arguement trying to say the kids mean it a different way."</B><BR/><BR/>I always understood his points, despite disagreeing with many of them.<BR/><BR/>I agree that some kids, hell, some ADULTS, don't mean anything negative by calling themselves and others "niggas."<BR/><BR/>Heck, I even came up with a reason for why some of them might be doing it (although I don't think all of them are consciously trying to redefine the word).<BR/><BR/>I still don't feel good about the word.<BR/><BR/>re: <B>"Tell you what, the next time you're out with your girlfriend, wife or whatever, try introducing them as "your bitch" or "ho". I guarantee you are going to get some looks."<BR/><BR/>If women were to go around calling themselves "hos" and/or "bitches" do you think well of them?"</B><BR/><BR/>This actually substantiates Rider's point, since people already do these things without (some folks) taking it negatively.<BR/><BR/>Friends will call each other "bitch" and "motherfucker" and all sorts of rude things, because they're cool with each other and don't mean anything by it, really.<BR/><BR/>This is why I acknowledge that there's some validity to the other side's position (despite the fact that some snide comments fail to recognize that tip o' the hat on my part).<BR/><BR/>I just don't fully agree with them.Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160579973610341432006-10-11T11:19:00.000-04:002006-10-11T11:19:00.000-04:00Yo, Cage, let it go, I think the Rider has ridden ...Yo, Cage, let it go, I think the Rider has ridden on. For the record, I understand what he is saying, but I think that it is a false arguement trying to say the kids mean it a different way.<BR/><BR/>Tell you what, the next time you're out with your girlfriend, wife or whatever, try introducing them as "your bitch" or "ho". I guarantee you are going to get some looks.<BR/><BR/>If women were to go around calling themselves "hos" and/or "bitches" do you think well of them?Art Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512422556677772379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160565945248492442006-10-11T07:25:00.000-04:002006-10-11T07:25:00.000-04:001,2,3,4...damn Rider. Actually, I only went on a 7...1,2,3,4...damn Rider. Actually, I only went on a 7 page discertation.. Just wanted to make that clear..Luke Cagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13129670058219925738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160531629867990812006-10-10T21:53:00.000-04:002006-10-10T21:53:00.000-04:00Holy Crap! I go away for awhile and you start a st...Holy Crap! I go away for awhile and you start a storm of controversy! I haven't seen this much activity since Paris Hilton's last case of herpes.<BR/><BR/>My test came back negative by the way.<BR/><BR/>About the topic at hand...<BR/><BR/>I am blessed with a rainbow coalition of friends. None of them have used this word around me. I don't use the word at all, unless I am literally quoting someone who has used it in a serious conversation. None of my boys have used it since Richard Pryor's routine about going to Africa and having his eyes opened about the word. I look at it like this, if you call yourself a nigger, don't be surprised if others ask you if its okay to call you a nigger. 'Cause make no mistake when you do this you are a nigger.<BR/><BR/>Kids toda, man...Art Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512422556677772379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160512406476195912006-10-10T16:33:00.000-04:002006-10-10T16:33:00.000-04:00That was all beautifully put Lucas, but I'm just t...That was all beautifully put Lucas, but I'm just telling you the thought process of those who use that word in street slang fashion. Obviously you don't like it, but you're damn sure gonna live with it. <BR/><BR/>And if by overly sensitive people you thought I meant black people in general, you were wrong. That comment was directed at West, and West alone. However, now I feel pretty comfortable throwing you in that category too. Otherwise why would you go into an 8 page discertation on African American History when my "overly sensitive" comment had nothing to do with black community? <BR/><BR/>Young kids use nigga to say homie. You don't like it? Okay. But that's the way it is. That's all I've been trying to say. <BR/><BR/>Peace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160507098264717672006-10-10T15:04:00.000-04:002006-10-10T15:04:00.000-04:00Rider, what in the world are you talking about man...Rider, what in the world are you talking about man? Overly sensitive people??? Know the history of the word first before you make a comment like that. Come on now. The N word was at the very foundation of the condition of the mental and physical slavery suffered by black people. Where else in history has any one race called that damn word (or name) and made to suffer the degradation, humiliation and even emasculation that is inflicted upon black people? <BR/><BR/>No other people have been made to live perpetually for more than 400 plus years with the stigma and the lies that go with it. <BR/><BR/>Our ancestors fought on every level, at every turn, and against every attempt to force us to be looked at or treated like niggers. If you were to count the endless <BR/>slave revolts and rebellions in America, the Caribbean and Africa, and other parts of the world, these uprisings were consistent struggles by blacks against it. <BR/><BR/>Do you know anything about the Civil Rights Era? It was about black people struggling on all levels NOT to be called that damn word. Blacks fought to be treated like human beings with an equal right to freedom, full equality and justice. Why? Because its our natural born right! <BR/><BR/>Yes, there are those in the current society and the world at large who unfortunately would like to see ourselves and have the entire globe treat us as niggers. <BR/><BR/>There are blacks out there right now who still fight against the use of it and should recruit others to fight the use of that word in any way that they can. <BR/><BR/>Nobody, in any incarnation, variant or straight up spelling of the word should be called that, whether it is used by us or others, it's historically tied to the intention of putting blacks down. That is it! No ifs, ands, or buts about it. <BR/><BR/>Blacks ancestors' are turning in their graves over the gratuitous use over it. And while the younger generation and even those in mine that for whatever reason, continue to be unaware of it's meaning and history, that is no damn excuse. <BR/><BR/>Think for a second about those who use it to put us down and don't use it directly, but in a subliminal fashion and trying to get over on us. I can only wonder what they are thinking. We shouldn't allow anyone to use it. That word is like an albatross and shackles around our necks and on our minds. Don't come back then. Trust me man. You won't be missed. Damn West. That dude needs a serious reprogramming session man!Luke Cagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13129670058219925738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160505062404013902006-10-10T14:31:00.000-04:002006-10-10T14:31:00.000-04:00There's a difference between what you know about s...There's a difference between what you know about something and how you feel about something.<BR/><BR/>You don't see to get that, along with quite a few other things, so you're certainly welcome to free yourself from annoyance I and my blog inflict upon you.Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160504757175342032006-10-10T14:25:00.000-04:002006-10-10T14:25:00.000-04:00Well to sum it up real nice and neatly, just read ...Well to sum it up real nice and neatly, just read the title of your blog to yourself. If you understand what the title means, you probably shouldn't be offended by the use of the word anymore.<BR/><BR/>Now that I know what I'm dealing with here, I probably won't be back. Dealing with overly sensitive people annoys me about as much as Christians who fear Harry Potter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160503949220865622006-10-10T14:12:00.000-04:002006-10-10T14:12:00.000-04:00The "er" or "a" thing just makes me shake my head ...The "er" or "a" thing just makes me shake my head because if you're being factual it's not like they intentionally (in the beginning) used the "a" instead of the "er" it has to do with not enunciating or using lazy improper speech. It's the same word nevertheless. JLo tried squeezing the word into one of her songs to make it more edgy and faced a huge backlash from fans and non-fans alike. We grew up blocks away from each other and if she's really from the block she'd know we don't say that.princessdominiquehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07487209892843939470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160503680274766182006-10-10T14:08:00.000-04:002006-10-10T14:08:00.000-04:00I was fine with discussing this issue with you unt...I was fine with discussing this issue with you until your tone took a turn for the worst.<BR/><BR/>Have a good one.Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160502931362317802006-10-10T13:55:00.000-04:002006-10-10T13:55:00.000-04:00I'll even add this, I can understand someone being...I'll even add this, I can understand someone being bothered if they hear any other black woman say about a black man "I would never date that broke nigga". In that sentence, the word nigga probably means the original use of the word.<BR/><BR/>But if you hear a kid say about their favorite player "that's my nigga", you should be smart enough to know he means that's my dude. That's my main man, etc..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160502641674609102006-10-10T13:50:00.000-04:002006-10-10T13:50:00.000-04:00"Am I missing something?"Obviously, or this post w..."Am I missing something?"<BR/><BR/>Obviously, or this post wouldn't exist.<BR/><BR/>If you know the reason younger kids say nigga, and you know that to them it has nothing to do with the word nigger, why would you get upset about it? Those words aren't one in the same to the kids using it. Once you understand that much, I can't comprehend why it would bother you so much after that. <BR/><BR/>If you think they are one in the same and it bothers you, fine. Don't use it, but don't expect that everyone else should feel that way.<BR/><BR/>Why would those kids feel bad about using a word, when to them it's synonomous with homie? Because, it hurts your feelings? Too bad, you just don't get it, and they shouldn't have to waste their time making sure you do. <BR/><BR/>I'm not saying you should have to understand why they should use it either. It's a generation gap. It's nothing more, and it's nothing less. <BR/><BR/>All I can say is that if you know what the mean by the word, and still get hurt after that, you're being too sensitive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160501790547227912006-10-10T13:36:00.000-04:002006-10-10T13:36:00.000-04:00re: "No, I'm saying, just because someone's reason...re: <B>"No, I'm saying, just because someone's reason for saying that word isn't enough for you, that doesn't mean they shouldn't say it."</B><BR/><BR/>I don't think I've seen any part of your opinion or position that acknowledges the affects that words have on other people.<BR/><BR/>Am I missing something?Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160499536333176102006-10-10T12:58:00.000-04:002006-10-10T12:58:00.000-04:00No, I'm saying, just because someone's reason for ...No, I'm saying, just because someone's reason for saying that word isn't enough for you, that doesn't mean they shouldn't say it. <BR/><BR/>If their reasoning for using the word is good enough for them, that's all that matters. <BR/><BR/>If a group of kids is around saying "yeah nigga" to each other, it's not their problem, you have a problem with it. If you can't understand why they say it, it's not on them to make you understand. <BR/><BR/>When they say "yeah nigga" to each other, they aren't thinking about the emancipation proclamation. They're thinking "yeah dude" "Yeah boy" or whatever. Why they chose to use that word as a replacement is beyond me, but it is what it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160491494138358902006-10-10T10:44:00.000-04:002006-10-10T10:44:00.000-04:00re: Rider's ""Smooth like butta." is still butta/e...re: Rider's <B>""Smooth like butta." is still butta/er. The definition of the word itself, in that sentence means the same exact thing as it always does. Even if you put butter in there, the phrase gets the same message across. Butter/butta doesn't make the word mean different things."</B><BR/><BR/>Perhaps, but as you say... <I>"You don't have to like that reasoning, but for some that's enough to justify using it."</I><BR/><BR/>re: Rider's <B>"As far as the "good for others" thing, I guess I don't mean good, but acceptable. To them, the word, when pronounced with an a and not er means two totally different things. If that's good enough for them, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it's notthe right word for you, simply don't use it.<BR/><BR/>Are there other words you can substitute for nigga. I'm sure there are many. But nigga is cool now, and it's probably never going away."</B><BR/><BR/>You say this as if words have no power - as if they aren't <B>a</B>ffective.<BR/><BR/>They are. Until they cease to be, these kinds of things will continue to come up. They will continue to affect people.<BR/><BR/>So, with respect, telling people to simply not use the word doesn't solve the problem, as many see it.<BR/><BR/>It's like you're telling someone who's being beaten up to simply not beat up anyone else. That doesn't spare them the pain of the experience, despite your good intentions.Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06305755944694741335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18002888.post-1160490540283675402006-10-10T10:29:00.000-04:002006-10-10T10:29:00.000-04:00"Smooth like butta." is still butta/er. The defini..."Smooth like butta." is still butta/er. The definition of the word itself, in that sentence means the same exact thing as it always does. Even if you put butter in there, the phrase gets the same message across. Butter/butta doesn't make the word mean different things.<BR/><BR/>As far as the "good for others" thing, I guess I don't mean good, but acceptable. To them, the word, when pronounced with an a and not er means two totally different things. If that's good enough for them, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it's notthe right word for you, simply don't use it.<BR/><BR/>Are there other words you can substitute for nigga. I'm sure there are many. But nigga is cool now, and it's probably never going away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com